Monday, May 30, 2011
Rob Bell's "Love Wins": Is this scary Theology?
Is Heaven reserved for a select few? How does God choose who gets to go and who doesn't and does it even matter if we think we know how God does it? In the same way, one can ask the question, "Does God send some to a place called Hell to be tortured; where people burn in agony forever?" Let the video clip encourage your thoughts and may we come to such things with open mindedness.
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I'm not convinced that scripture gives us a completely clear picture of the 'dynamics of judgment'. Scripture is clear that sin & evil is vanquished in God's final act, but I'm not convinced that the 'how' of this act is all that clear.
ReplyDeleteThis is why, in my opinion, history has given us numerous response options including the traditional orthodox Catholic and Protestant perspectives on hell, the Annihilationist perspective, and then also several universalist options. Rob Bell's questions wrestle with scripture somewhere between these poles of theology, not quite at home in any of them.
However, scripture is abundantly clear on the 'dynamics of salvation'. Scripture is perfectly clear on the 'who' and the 'how' of salvation. In short, Jesus saves. The 'how' of Jesus' saving work is often categorized into three Atonement theories, but other symbolic language, other than the tree traditional ones, is also used in scripture.
In other words, it is my opinion that Scripture is 100% clear on who saves us and how he saves us; but scripture is much less clear on the dynamics of judgment (how, when, etc...).
I think our eternal destination is much more a matter of our own choices than God's judgement.
ReplyDeleteFor example, say person A and person B get into an argument - a serious, hurtful disagreement. Say A refuses to forgive B, but nurses a grudge against him for years. Finally, when A dies, he finds himself in the anteroom to heaven. There are two doors, marked "Heaven" and "Hell". The angel on duty says to him, "Go right in, they're waiting for you." "But which door?" "Either one, your choice." He is just about to move towards the "Heaven" door when it opens and he sees B standing there. "Come on in!" says B. "And guess what? We get to spend all of eternity together!"
Now what is A to do? Is he willing to let go of his hurt and his grudge and go to spend all of eternity with B? Or will he make the other choice and go through the door marked "Hell"?
Or maybe there is no choice? Maybe for A, being made to spend all eternity in the presence of B is not heaven, but hell in itself. Maybe for a person who has shunned God and run from God and hated and feared God, to be in the very presence of God would be hell. We make our own choices. God does not condemn. We condemn ourselves.
I have often wondered...If God's grace is to be defined as that which we can not "deserve" a.k.a. working towards a state of acceptability in God's sight, then how far does that reach? If I don't deserve God's grace, and the vilest offender does not deserve grace, then what is it that makes us different? If God's grace is what makes any salvation possible, then why do I think that I somehow "deserve" God's grace because I tell people that I believe in God and that I'm a Christian. Are we not still creating our dichotomies, and double standards?
ReplyDeleteI think us, somewhat more evangelical Anabaptists, fear that if we can't scare people into hell, then how can we offer them heaven? Are the ideas of Heaven, paradise, kingdom of God diminished when we don't "push" people into hell first?...you know, the idea that you can't be thirsty for the truly good if you have not first lived in the truly bad...that sort of thing. Just some questions about the subject.
I don't think we have to manufacture "bad news" to warn people about, I think people experience enough bad news in their lives as it is. The Good News of the Gospel comes in many different guises, depending on what the bad news is in people's lives: healing instead of sickness, meaning and purpose instead of purposelessness, community instead of loneliness, and yes, forgiveness instead of guilt. I don't think the best way to reach people is to offer them "pie in the sky by and by," but to offer real transformation and hope in the here and now.
ReplyDeleteShould we be concerned only with our "eternal" destination when it comes to salvation, or condemnation? I think that Rob Bell is on to something about the many ways in which heaven and hell are manifest each day here on earth. People tend to push the idea, though, that those realities are only after we die...thank you Marco for pointed out the different possible interpretations of atonement and judgement. I would love to do some sort of study on those various interpretations/readings. I think many of us are afraid that we might see Hitler in God's Kingdom...or an abusive relative, or any other vile offender.
ReplyDeletea great book on the topic is John Driver's "Understanding the Atonement" by Herald Press.
ReplyDeleteOne of my favorite prayers on the topic of heaven and hell goes as follows:
ReplyDeleteLord, if I love you in order to be spared from hell, then send me to heaven. And if I love you, in order to receive the prize of heaven, then send me to hell. But, Lord, if I love you only for the sake of loving you, then do with me whatever you will. Amen.
Marco...love the prayer! Thanks for sharing that. I feel like Christians begin to lose perspective so often when we try to convince others how right we are. When we try to defend our case at all cost. Now, we ALL do it! Can't really get away from that, but maybe we can begin to minimize the occurrences a wee bit. It helps to have constant conversations with people you would normally disagree with and find ways to be ok with not being totally the same on every issue.
ReplyDeleteHeaven is spoken of as a banquet in the Gospels. When we think about who gets invited to that banquet, it seems surprising that our Lord would purposely choose the "bums from the street". There are some Christians who talk of the "party" that will be happening "upstairs", while the "torturing" will be happening "downstairs". This leads many sincere Christian people to wonder if Jesus will actually be more concerned about leaving the "upstairs" party (perhaps that's what Christ has already done...)to care for the "downstairs" crowd.
ReplyDeleteDoes God "throw" certain people into hell? Or, is it rather that by our choices and actions, we participate in creating our own hells and even hell for other people? That we end up filling our lives, our whole being with things that are incompatible with heaven ie: apathy, greed, lust, practising injustice, exploiting and oppressing/suppressing people...etc?
Do we have a God who desperately wishes to save us from the "fires of hell", but is unable to do so because he is somehow bound by a higher court of law which demands that certain people must suffer torment endlessly? If God says that he wishes that NONE should perish, are we to understand that as an unattainable dream that God has? Like how we all wish at some point in our lives, to win the lotto jackpot? Or, is God working out a saving plan which will baffle even the most "inclusive" Christian on the planet? If God says that he wished none to perish, will he not also put in a bit of effort in order to bring salvation, redemption and restoration?
ReplyDeleteHey guys;
ReplyDeleteI'm just lurking for now, but I'm loving the openness here already... Keep it up! :) I'll get in on these discussions when I'm on a computer, not just my iPod. :P
Any time Lana. You are more than welcome on this blog. Hopefully we can learn something from each other.
ReplyDeletePeace